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	<title>Comments for alexpoole.info</title>
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	<link>http://alexpoole.info</link>
	<description>A blog about interaction design </description>
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		<title>Comment on Which Are More Legible: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces? by The Serif Print/Sans-Serif Web B.S. Needs to End &#171; Egyptian Glass</title>
		<link>http://alexpoole.info/which-are-more-legible-serif-or-sans-serif-typefaces#comment-14253</link>
		<dc:creator>The Serif Print/Sans-Serif Web B.S. Needs to End &#171; Egyptian Glass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 19:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexpoole.info/blog/?p=278#comment-14253</guid>
		<description>[...] Several studies have been done and most that I&#8217;ve researched have found here, here  and here the difference to be so little, mere milliseconds between reading times, that it makes the serif v. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Several studies have been done and most that I&#8217;ve researched have found here, here  and here the difference to be so little, mere milliseconds between reading times, that it makes the serif v. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Which Are More Legible: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces? by Ian</title>
		<link>http://alexpoole.info/which-are-more-legible-serif-or-sans-serif-typefaces#comment-14101</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexpoole.info/blog/?p=278#comment-14101</guid>
		<description>I think much of this discussion derives from the fact that we are talking about legibility and readability in different circumstances. If we ask someone to read a road sign the circumstances and conditions are obviously wildy different from those when we are relaxing and reading a novel in circumstances we have adapted for the most comfortable reading. Different criteria would, I assume, apply if reading the letters on the casing of a bomb being defused. I suspect that the facility at reading of the individual reader will also play a part in the suitability of typeface because of various reading styles. Personally I object to those at university level specifying Verdana as the only permitted typeface because they read somewhere (probably on a Microsoft hand-out) that it the most legible of all. Along with Ariel it must be the blandest, dullest of them all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think much of this discussion derives from the fact that we are talking about legibility and readability in different circumstances. If we ask someone to read a road sign the circumstances and conditions are obviously wildy different from those when we are relaxing and reading a novel in circumstances we have adapted for the most comfortable reading. Different criteria would, I assume, apply if reading the letters on the casing of a bomb being defused. I suspect that the facility at reading of the individual reader will also play a part in the suitability of typeface because of various reading styles. Personally I object to those at university level specifying Verdana as the only permitted typeface because they read somewhere (probably on a Microsoft hand-out) that it the most legible of all. Along with Ariel it must be the blandest, dullest of them all!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Which Are More Legible: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces? by Mark D-B</title>
		<link>http://alexpoole.info/which-are-more-legible-serif-or-sans-serif-typefaces#comment-13415</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark D-B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexpoole.info/blog/?p=278#comment-13415</guid>
		<description>For those of us who find it very difficult to read large blocks of sans serif text, it would be interesting to know whether we all found it difficult to learn to read in the first place. I now read at high speed, but, whilst never labelled &quot;dyslexic&quot; I was very slow to learn to read and write. I think I may have never really learned to process words in the &quot;assembly of letters&quot; form - I suspect I recognise the words themselves, which is why sans-serifs (even ClearType) give me a headache as I see letters rather than a word. On paper, I also can instantly spot spelling mistakes, and muddled capitalisation, which others miss - again, I suspect, because my brain says &quot;that looks wrong&quot;, whereas others skip-read the letters and get what they expect to see. Interestingly, it isn&#039;t the same on screen - I don&#039;t spot mistakes &#039;til printed, and I also find it much more tiring to read anything on my (expensive LCD) monitor than on paper or a Kindle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those of us who find it very difficult to read large blocks of sans serif text, it would be interesting to know whether we all found it difficult to learn to read in the first place. I now read at high speed, but, whilst never labelled &#8220;dyslexic&#8221; I was very slow to learn to read and write. I think I may have never really learned to process words in the &#8220;assembly of letters&#8221; form &#8211; I suspect I recognise the words themselves, which is why sans-serifs (even ClearType) give me a headache as I see letters rather than a word. On paper, I also can instantly spot spelling mistakes, and muddled capitalisation, which others miss &#8211; again, I suspect, because my brain says &#8220;that looks wrong&#8221;, whereas others skip-read the letters and get what they expect to see. Interestingly, it isn&#8217;t the same on screen &#8211; I don&#8217;t spot mistakes &#8217;til printed, and I also find it much more tiring to read anything on my (expensive LCD) monitor than on paper or a Kindle.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Which Are More Legible: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces? by Eric Holub</title>
		<link>http://alexpoole.info/which-are-more-legible-serif-or-sans-serif-typefaces#comment-13056</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Holub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 01:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexpoole.info/blog/?p=278#comment-13056</guid>
		<description>Regarding type size and legibilty, it should be noted that in the peak period of hot-metal comosition, typefaces were cut from different masters at different size ranges; very small text sizes had larger counters and x-height, display sizes would have relatively thinned strokes and refined serifs. And faces were actually tested in print to determine if counters would fill or serifs or hairlines weaken, and what the ink-gain would be on different stocks. Book faces, news faces, ad faces, all had different criteria for suitabilty.
In digital typography, there are very few faces that size ranges. The Adobe Multiple Master size axis was a nice try, but in hot-metal, Linotype and Monotype made a greater effort, whether or not the end user noticed. 
Speaking as a letterpress printer who prefers seriffed types on paper, I&#039;d still rather see sans-serif on the web, for legibilty in that context. A print publisher can control its own variables for the best product, but a web publisher has no control over the hardware and software of the user. New LCD? Old CRT? You can&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding type size and legibilty, it should be noted that in the peak period of hot-metal comosition, typefaces were cut from different masters at different size ranges; very small text sizes had larger counters and x-height, display sizes would have relatively thinned strokes and refined serifs. And faces were actually tested in print to determine if counters would fill or serifs or hairlines weaken, and what the ink-gain would be on different stocks. Book faces, news faces, ad faces, all had different criteria for suitabilty.<br />
In digital typography, there are very few faces that size ranges. The Adobe Multiple Master size axis was a nice try, but in hot-metal, Linotype and Monotype made a greater effort, whether or not the end user noticed.<br />
Speaking as a letterpress printer who prefers seriffed types on paper, I&#8217;d still rather see sans-serif on the web, for legibilty in that context. A print publisher can control its own variables for the best product, but a web publisher has no control over the hardware and software of the user. New LCD? Old CRT? You can&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Which Are More Legible: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces? by Simon</title>
		<link>http://alexpoole.info/which-are-more-legible-serif-or-sans-serif-typefaces#comment-12738</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexpoole.info/blog/?p=278#comment-12738</guid>
		<description>Fascinating Alex - a great piece of research, and good to see you to debunk some of the pseudoscience out there. Well balanced also.

The use of the serif - in lower case type especially - is a relic from broad nibbed pen techniques. I don&#039;t know of any mediaeval bookhands that didn&#039;t use serifs. The first type faces copied the bookhands of their day, and then in their own turn evolved to cater for the printing technology of successive eras. It&#039;s amazing in some ways the serif survived for as long as it did.

Even though I have a 1680x1050 monitor in front of me now, in standard 11pt type, a serif type face has an x height of 7 or 8 pixels, and the serifs are blobby and indistinct; a printed letter of the same size would be much crisper, so I am sure that even with current higher resolution screens, sans serif has the edge. On paper - well I still appreciate a well set and printed book in serifs. 

Overall though - I am pretty sure that familiarity with any script is the greatest aid to legibility!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating Alex &#8211; a great piece of research, and good to see you to debunk some of the pseudoscience out there. Well balanced also.</p>
<p>The use of the serif &#8211; in lower case type especially &#8211; is a relic from broad nibbed pen techniques. I don&#8217;t know of any mediaeval bookhands that didn&#8217;t use serifs. The first type faces copied the bookhands of their day, and then in their own turn evolved to cater for the printing technology of successive eras. It&#8217;s amazing in some ways the serif survived for as long as it did.</p>
<p>Even though I have a 1680&#215;1050 monitor in front of me now, in standard 11pt type, a serif type face has an x height of 7 or 8 pixels, and the serifs are blobby and indistinct; a printed letter of the same size would be much crisper, so I am sure that even with current higher resolution screens, sans serif has the edge. On paper &#8211; well I still appreciate a well set and printed book in serifs. </p>
<p>Overall though &#8211; I am pretty sure that familiarity with any script is the greatest aid to legibility!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Which Are More Legible: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces? by Walden Miller</title>
		<link>http://alexpoole.info/which-are-more-legible-serif-or-sans-serif-typefaces#comment-12454</link>
		<dc:creator>Walden Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 22:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexpoole.info/blog/?p=278#comment-12454</guid>
		<description>I did my grad work at Iowa State and read pretty much the same sources (MA in &#039;96 or so).  But, it strikes me that back lit monitors, increased resolution, &amp; real WYSIWYG are a major component of readability studies for online fonts.  Most major studies you quoted and I have read are pre-Sun/Apple/Mac workstations and certainly pre-Windows.  The few that I have read since then seem to be marketing driven and show that fonts can be used counter-intuitively to great effect.  I would love to see a study on the scale of Tinker that is online only and takes into consideration the monitors (or phones/tablets/etc.) as the medium for reading.

Thanks for this column.  Its nice to see someone passionate for typography and design.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did my grad work at Iowa State and read pretty much the same sources (MA in &#8217;96 or so).  But, it strikes me that back lit monitors, increased resolution, &amp; real WYSIWYG are a major component of readability studies for online fonts.  Most major studies you quoted and I have read are pre-Sun/Apple/Mac workstations and certainly pre-Windows.  The few that I have read since then seem to be marketing driven and show that fonts can be used counter-intuitively to great effect.  I would love to see a study on the scale of Tinker that is online only and takes into consideration the monitors (or phones/tablets/etc.) as the medium for reading.</p>
<p>Thanks for this column.  Its nice to see someone passionate for typography and design.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Which Are More Legible: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces? by Lee Stein</title>
		<link>http://alexpoole.info/which-are-more-legible-serif-or-sans-serif-typefaces#comment-11921</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Stein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 02:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexpoole.info/blog/?p=278#comment-11921</guid>
		<description>Excellent work. When I was new to the marketing and advertising B2B world in the 70&#039;s &amp; 80&#039;s, I recall reading an Adweek article that reported research that claimed increased readability, meaning comprehension, and reader attentiveness for serif vs. non-serif fonts. I didn&#039;t delve into the matter any further at the time, but have often used serif fonts based on that now ancient article.

I am relieved to learn that using sans serif does not detract, and in fact, may enhance legibility and readability. Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent work. When I was new to the marketing and advertising B2B world in the 70&#8242;s &amp; 80&#8242;s, I recall reading an Adweek article that reported research that claimed increased readability, meaning comprehension, and reader attentiveness for serif vs. non-serif fonts. I didn&#8217;t delve into the matter any further at the time, but have often used serif fonts based on that now ancient article.</p>
<p>I am relieved to learn that using sans serif does not detract, and in fact, may enhance legibility and readability. Thank you!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Zombie infographic by P1 Competitive Analysis &#124; Cheryl James Design</title>
		<link>http://alexpoole.info/zombie-infographic#comment-11919</link>
		<dc:creator>P1 Competitive Analysis &#124; Cheryl James Design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 01:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexpoole.info/?p=1261#comment-11919</guid>
		<description>[...] http://alexpoole.info/zombie-infographic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://alexpoole.info/zombie-infographic" rel="nofollow">http://alexpoole.info/zombie-infographic</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Which Are More Legible: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces? by Gary S</title>
		<link>http://alexpoole.info/which-are-more-legible-serif-or-sans-serif-typefaces#comment-11833</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jan 2012 19:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexpoole.info/blog/?p=278#comment-11833</guid>
		<description>As an (obscure) author and small publisher,
I once wrote a short parable for an adult audience in the guise of a children&#039;s story. I printed it in Bradley Hand ITC script as a handout for review. 

The response was overwhelmingly positive and very emotional. However, when I asked these same reviewers about the font used to convey the story, their reaction ranged from tepid to negative. (About the same as the Bradley font reviews I&#039;ve read online)

So I published the story in a more &quot;suitable&quot;  book font (Garamond). Although the book won an award for interior design by literary critics, the story itself never received the accolades first experienced with those five simple pages scrawled in Bradley Hand.

It reminds me of a study of viewer acceptance  of Calibri and Cambria when those fonts first replaced the web standards of Times Roman and Arial. Reportedly, viewers were negative toward Cambria, and yet Cambria was the &quot;stickiest&quot;, holding viewers the longest, compared to all other serif fonts presented.

I don&#039;t know how to interpret all of this. I now plan to publish my short story online, but I&#039;m at wit&#039;s end trying to decide which font to publish it in. I think I&#039;ll stay glued to this forum for awhile. 

Thanks for your insights
Gary</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an (obscure) author and small publisher,<br />
I once wrote a short parable for an adult audience in the guise of a children&#8217;s story. I printed it in Bradley Hand ITC script as a handout for review. </p>
<p>The response was overwhelmingly positive and very emotional. However, when I asked these same reviewers about the font used to convey the story, their reaction ranged from tepid to negative. (About the same as the Bradley font reviews I&#8217;ve read online)</p>
<p>So I published the story in a more &#8220;suitable&#8221;  book font (Garamond). Although the book won an award for interior design by literary critics, the story itself never received the accolades first experienced with those five simple pages scrawled in Bradley Hand.</p>
<p>It reminds me of a study of viewer acceptance  of Calibri and Cambria when those fonts first replaced the web standards of Times Roman and Arial. Reportedly, viewers were negative toward Cambria, and yet Cambria was the &#8220;stickiest&#8221;, holding viewers the longest, compared to all other serif fonts presented.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how to interpret all of this. I now plan to publish my short story online, but I&#8217;m at wit&#8217;s end trying to decide which font to publish it in. I think I&#8217;ll stay glued to this forum for awhile. </p>
<p>Thanks for your insights<br />
Gary</p>
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		<title>Comment on Which Are More Legible: Serif or Sans Serif Typefaces? by busta</title>
		<link>http://alexpoole.info/which-are-more-legible-serif-or-sans-serif-typefaces#comment-10997</link>
		<dc:creator>busta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexpoole.info/blog/?p=278#comment-10997</guid>
		<description>Typefaces seems to belong to their time; a designer can &#039;place&#039; a set in any decade in the first half of the 20th Century simply by using signage in appropriate font(s).

I believe familiarity, and the impression to be made on the reader, to be the keys. 

At one time, the decorated scripts used in handwriting may have been far easier to read than we find today, else copperplate and its ilk would have been merely tiresome (rather than impressive), and who could have tolerated hand-written german? Old scripts require practice, and some require specialists, to read simply because we&#039;re no longer familiar with them.

Serif fonts (such as TR) ape the text inscribed on monuments from an earlier age. Their function is to imply gravitas and worth.

But for half a century or more we&#039;ve been surrounded by sans-serif fonts, specifically Helvetica and all its cousins, especially in signage. Their function is to imply clarity and modernism.

There&#039;s some merit to the tools arguement too. My handwriting is essentially italic, learned with a fountain pen, and to you probably scratchy and difficult to read. If you&#039;re ten years younger than I am, your handwriting, learned with a crayon, probably looks more like comic sans-serif, and to me faintly juvenile. 

Applying a similar progression to the tools we use for writing, we go from Times Roman (what we want) to Courier (what we can do with a type-writer) to IBM Golf-Ball (Choices! All those bl.stupid double-spaces can vanish along with mono-spacing! Let&#039;s be modern and use sans-serif!) to the Arial or Verdana we use today. OK, I&#039;ve missed several stop-offs, such as those machine-readable typefaces, along the way, but you get it: The font conveys the idea; the readability comes (as much as anything) from familiarity with the tools and their product.

So it should be no surprise the comparative research on fonts should be at best inconclusive or deliver in shades of grey.

You may like to try to dig out some work the UK&#039;s Ministry of Transport did on Motorway (Freeway) signage not long after WWII. We ended up with Helvetiva, albeit at a slighly larger size than many of our European cousins, in white on dark-green or blue, or black on white. Why? Legibility from a distance and optimal contrast, as I recall. So I bought into the notion that sans-serif worked best on screens because they were effectively read at arm&#039;s-length, rather than up close in the manner of a good book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typefaces seems to belong to their time; a designer can &#8216;place&#8217; a set in any decade in the first half of the 20th Century simply by using signage in appropriate font(s).</p>
<p>I believe familiarity, and the impression to be made on the reader, to be the keys. </p>
<p>At one time, the decorated scripts used in handwriting may have been far easier to read than we find today, else copperplate and its ilk would have been merely tiresome (rather than impressive), and who could have tolerated hand-written german? Old scripts require practice, and some require specialists, to read simply because we&#8217;re no longer familiar with them.</p>
<p>Serif fonts (such as TR) ape the text inscribed on monuments from an earlier age. Their function is to imply gravitas and worth.</p>
<p>But for half a century or more we&#8217;ve been surrounded by sans-serif fonts, specifically Helvetica and all its cousins, especially in signage. Their function is to imply clarity and modernism.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s some merit to the tools arguement too. My handwriting is essentially italic, learned with a fountain pen, and to you probably scratchy and difficult to read. If you&#8217;re ten years younger than I am, your handwriting, learned with a crayon, probably looks more like comic sans-serif, and to me faintly juvenile. </p>
<p>Applying a similar progression to the tools we use for writing, we go from Times Roman (what we want) to Courier (what we can do with a type-writer) to IBM Golf-Ball (Choices! All those bl.stupid double-spaces can vanish along with mono-spacing! Let&#8217;s be modern and use sans-serif!) to the Arial or Verdana we use today. OK, I&#8217;ve missed several stop-offs, such as those machine-readable typefaces, along the way, but you get it: The font conveys the idea; the readability comes (as much as anything) from familiarity with the tools and their product.</p>
<p>So it should be no surprise the comparative research on fonts should be at best inconclusive or deliver in shades of grey.</p>
<p>You may like to try to dig out some work the UK&#8217;s Ministry of Transport did on Motorway (Freeway) signage not long after WWII. We ended up with Helvetiva, albeit at a slighly larger size than many of our European cousins, in white on dark-green or blue, or black on white. Why? Legibility from a distance and optimal contrast, as I recall. So I bought into the notion that sans-serif worked best on screens because they were effectively read at arm&#8217;s-length, rather than up close in the manner of a good book.</p>
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